Curse

Xeavor · Aug 29, 2005, 03:01 AM // 03:01

You have pve players and you have pvp players. The protection bond was changed supposedly because of unfairness in the arena fighting of the pvp. Ok, this change affected pve players, and most likely 80% of them felt it was in a negative way. You say you want to keep the game balanced, I agree, that very important "in pvp". In pve, its a completely different story, why should it matter so much? I really am a fond believer in Guild Wars continuing to be a great success, but how about a little more seperate universes when it comes to pvp and pve.

For example, why not include uber weapons and items in pve and make them only useable "in pve". It doesn't matter if you own a AI powered enemy. I know that you set out to be different than the typical grinding mmorpg, and you have achieved that goal. But at the same time, grind is a part of the pve existence, and perhaps it would be better if the two sides didn't have to depend on each other so much. I'd like the GW community to comment their suggestions on this, and also if you think it would be a good idea. I personally think it would make GW better, and then the ying and yang would be much happier with one another.

Aracos79 · Aug 29, 2005, 03:21 AM // 03:21

Ok maybe I totally missed something... but I don't recall ANYONE saying that there was anything wrong with Protective Bond in PvP, arenas or otherwise. The only "abuse" was people using Bond in the 105/55 solo-UW monk builds. So that change was made strictly for PvE purposes. It had nothing to do with PvP at all.

And if you start including "uber" weapons and items, it will degenerate into nothing more than "elite"ism. People will only group with others with "uber" weapons, leaving the people without them out in the cold. Botters and eBayers will then start harvesting them and selling them both in-game and IRL for outrageous amounts. I don't see how that could benefit the game at all. Just my 2 cents.

White Designs · Aug 29, 2005, 03:24 AM // 03:24

A single class should not be able to do the work of a team of 8 in the Underworld. It leads to inflation from Ectoplasm and Shards, as well as making one class have a clear advantage in PvE. It was a good balance fix.

HowardJones · Aug 29, 2005, 04:02 AM // 04:02

dude yes bond was nerfed only for the monks who farm. Was it wise? Now ectos will go UP in price not lower, and same goes for price on perfect weapons, because no one can get them as easily, and no one can raise money as easily. Think about it, its like what would happen if the govt shut down microsoft, Dreamworks, Ford and ATT. LOTS of unemployment and nothing but crap on the market.

kbealow · Aug 29, 2005, 04:15 AM // 04:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aracos79

And if you start including "uber" weapons and items, it will degenerate into nothing more than "elite"ism. People will only group with others with "uber" weapons, leaving the people without them out in the cold. Botters and eBayers will then start harvesting them and selling them both in-game and IRL for outrageous amounts. I don't see how that could benefit the game at all. Just my 2 cents.

Ok now I have never had any problem getting into groups and I've been in many...not once did I ever hear someone ask me what kind of weapon I had and that they would only group with people only having "uber" weapons...and thats just my 2 cents

Anyway...I think it is a good idea to seperate PvP and PvE...because I for one do not care about PvP at all...not everybody does...I don't think it is fair for anet or anyone else forcing people to PvP more...cause that is why they feel the need to "balance" everything to get more people to PvP...so I've heared...that in my opion is just plan stupid...I will never PvP...and anet can't do anything about it

All in all I still like the game...i have one more character that isn't lvl 20 yet...will be soon...they better hurry up with that expantion...cause i'm going to loose my interest...and end up moving on.

Weezer_Blue · Aug 29, 2005, 04:19 AM // 04:19

PvE:

Give them whatever the hell they want. Uber weapons, etc. Make these types of weapons a special color that indicates they can only be used in PvE, and they cannot be equipped in PvP. Blah blah... whatever else they want.

PvP:

Give us UAX. That means Unlock Everything. Remake the maps so they aren't either gankfests are defensively played maps. Continue to rebalance skills.

Great. Now we have what both groups want.

PvEers: Want to grind forever for meaningless items and fight stupid monsters with bad AI.

PvPers: Want to jump into an arena and start making builds with people they've never seen before, go to the new non-suck map Hall of Heroes, and win using their skills versus the other players.

Aracos79 · Aug 29, 2005, 04:20 AM // 04:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by kbealow

Ok now I have never had any problem getting into groups and I've been in many...not once did I ever hear someone ask me what kind of weapon I had and that they would only group with people only having "uber" weapons...and thats just my 2 cents

What I meant by my comment was that if their was a class of "uber" weapons that were clearly better and more powerful than regular weapons, people would use that as a pre-req to get into groups... especially for UW/FoW and the more difficult missions like Thunderhead Keep. There are already far too many people who use silly and arbitrary distinctions to try and classify players (ie. total XP, total faction, hours played). Why give those sadly uninformed people another silly standard to "measure" people and discriminate against them?

tear · Aug 29, 2005, 04:21 AM // 04:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by kbealow

Ok now I have never had any problem getting into groups and I've been in many...not once did I ever hear someone ask me what kind of weapon I had and that they would only group with people only having "uber" weapons...and thats just my 2 cents

Exactly - because GW is designed so that it doesn't really matter. It's skill based, not item based. Introducing "elite" equipment would make this a different kind of game. Maybe the OP should leave GW and look for an MMORPG.

Quote:

Anyway...I think it is a good idea to seperate PvP and PvE...because I for one do not care about PvP at all...not everybody does...I don't think it is fair for anet or anyone else forcing people to PvP more...cause that is why they feel the need to "balance" everything to get more people to PvP...so I've heared...that in my opion is just plan stupid...I will never PvP...and anet can't do anything about it

All in all I still like the game...i have one more character that isn't lvl 20 yet...will be soon...they better hurry up with that expantion...cause i'm going to loose my interest...and end up moving on.

They aren't trying to make you PvP - they want to create balance, because, well, isn't it obvious? You need balance in a game. Things need to be...balanced. I don't know...fair.

Spartan2 · Aug 29, 2005, 05:01 AM // 05:01

I agree with Weezer. I am starting to hate grinding away just to see if another skill would put in any difference to my build. I am down to a "casual" gaming experience and I just can't dedicate my time that needs to be used for homework for unlocking skills but I still want to be competative and try out builds as they come into my head. I am still unable to do this after 600 hours played over 3 characters to the Ring of Fire (one deleted) and 1 up to the Ice Caves of Sorrow. This just takes too much time . . .

kbealow · Aug 29, 2005, 05:12 AM // 05:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by tear

They aren't trying to make you PvP - they want to create balance, because, well, isn't it obvious? You need balance in a game. Things need to be...balanced. I don't know...fair.

Ok what is this so called "balance"

Is it balance between the classes...each class has its strengths and weaknesses...you can't have balance here...some classes do well against a curtain class of enemy while others do not...if you balance everything out...then we might as well play the same character...

...and before someone says "you're just mad cause the monk build got nerfed" I never had a solo monk...just for the record...

Let people play they way they see fit to play thier game...and stop forcing your idea of a "balanced" game should be played...we all have different ways of having fun...some like to play with other online people (PvP and teams in PvE) others like to one on one (farm)...which most of us can...it might not be UW...so souldn't the people be allowed to play the game the way they see it "balanced"...that's all I'm saying...who are you to tell me what is "balanced"...it's only your way of playing right...I just think that people need to start seeing that not everybody plays the way they do.

and this is not soloy directed to tear...just quoting from him

Arcanis Imperium · Aug 29, 2005, 05:16 AM // 05:16

Seperating PvE and PVP will just cause one thing.

A total end to any reason to go into PvE after you beat the game.

I use my PvE character in PVP because I can use my own armor with the runes I bought and weapon that I strived to find and build on.

If I waited to do in PVP what I can do now with my PvE character, I'd never go in PVP.

Mark Twain · Aug 29, 2005, 05:19 AM // 05:19

nerfing the prot bonf was a very bad suggestion. i am a 55 monk. the prot bond change has not affected me at all. i still solo uw. just because some ppl that cant solo it have to complain... u have to change it for the ppl that can.

Red Sonya · Aug 29, 2005, 06:05 AM // 06:05

I think many of you need to remember the title of the game it's called "GUILD WARS", not Diablo, not Neverwinter Nights, not Everquest, but "GUILD WARS", that says in the title what the developers had/have in mind for the game for it to be PVP based, with a pve game just to give it some longevity and challenge to get to the PVP game. It's about ladders and fame and rank, not about how uber you are or whether you have 15k armor or not. 15k armor is not a necessity for pve or pvp, it's just a vanity item and many people act like it's gods gift to mankind and a crying shame if they can't own it and cry about the economy if they can't own it a week after starting to play the game. It's nothing more than another time sync and if you want to "grind" for that armor then that's what it's there for. There's no forcing anyone to grind for un-needed armor.

If their priority was pve then there would be hordes of loot content, but, if you really inspect it, there's very little loot content compared to other mmorpgs and even your single player offline games. GW's probably has the least loot content of any rpg type game out there atm. Just create a PVP only character and you'll see quickly there's very few upgrades at all, and there's a lvl 20 cap and a 200 cap on attributes all this ties in with the PVP portion of the game to balance and make a level playing field where eventually the only thing that matters is "skill" over anything else. You won't have a greater weapon than anyone else, you won't have a faster one, you won't have greater armor than anyone else, you'll only have your "skill".

The PVE part of the game did bring a lot of rpgers into this game (brought me), but, as more and more are seeing the game for what it was really designed for they will move onto something else. One levels way too fast for it to be really a grind other than grinding for that leet un-needed armor. You can reach level 20 within a day or two if you know what to do. You can fly through the game using runners now if you have the cash which for many of us now having loads of cash isn't a big issue, only those just starting out usually whine about not having any money, they want what we got without having to work for it even a little bit it seems.

The fact that the game has no monthly fee also brought a large crowd, but, even free the game can and will still become boring if you're not into PVP. It's just over too fast compared to the regular mmorpgs out there, hence it's more of an mmo than a dynamic mmorpg type game that has so much content it can take you years to discover it all.

The game will eventually balance out to pure pvp players in the long run. Just like many of us who play single player games offline after we've done the story a couple of times we move onto something else. If they had made the PVE portion more like DIablo 2 and added tons of loot content that drops like rain and made going back through it a nightmare and hell encounter the PVE portion would have more longevity, but, as it is, it's not intended for that cause the intention is "GUILD WARS".

I'm waiting on Dungeons and Dragons Online, I've recently read one can triple multiclass just like you can in the offline tabletop and Neverwinter Nights versions. It'll probably have an expensive monthly fee, but, I have no doubt it will have extended PVE content so that the PVE game doesn't become boring because one did it all within a week.

SO play Guild Wars for what it's "primary" design is about PVP, if you're just totally not into PVP the PVE game is going to become stale and boring and feel like a useless grind for nothing more than some vanity armor which isn't any better in stats than the 1500gp armor.

Infernal Monk · Aug 29, 2005, 06:13 AM // 06:13

Ya, i gotta agree. This game wasnt designed around pve like almost every other MMORPG game out there. It is designed around pvp strategic fighting. if you arent amused by the pvp side of this game...prepared to get bored..and fast. While arena net can add things like sorrow's furnace, two new areas arent gunna keep me busy for long. A well made guild group can clear FoW and BAM no reason to go back.

tear · Aug 29, 2005, 06:31 AM // 06:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by kbealow

Ok what is this so called "balance"

Is it balance between the classes...each class has its strengths and weaknesses...you can't have balance here...some classes do well against a curtain class of enemy while others do not...if you balance everything out...then we might as well play the same character...

...and before someone says "you're just mad cause the monk build got nerfed" I never had a solo monk...just for the record...

Let people play they way they see fit to play thier game...and stop forcing your idea of a "balanced" game should be played...we all have different ways of having fun...some like to play with other online people (PvP and teams in PvE) others like to one on one (farm)...which most of us can...it might not be UW...so souldn't the people be allowed to play the game the way they see it "balanced"...that's all I'm saying...who are you to tell me what is "balanced"...it's only your way of playing right...I just think that people need to start seeing that not everybody plays the way they do.

and this is not soloy directed to tear...just quoting from him

Of course every class is different and has its strengths and weaknesses, but sometimes things are cleary imbalanced to the point of hurting the game. One monk soloing the UW with such ease was an imbalance. The ranger spirits were clearly overpowered (in pvp at least). And obviously Arena.net recognized these balances as well as any others they fixed.

What if there was an icon you could click, and every time you clicked it, one platinum was added to your inventory? Do you think that is reasonable, and that no one has the right to tell you that it's imbalanced, that you should be able to play as you wish, even if it's clearly unfair to all the other players?

And as far as item balances go, an excerpt from the latest Fansite Friday interview reads:

Quote:

It's an interesting question. This would tie in to basic principles of Guild Wars: The game is not based on the notion of "uber" items, and balance is the foremost objective, always. But what about the "collectability" and sheer coolness factor of having unique items and special looks for our characters? The answer is "Yes, why not!?" We won't add something that's going to tip the delicate scale of item balance, but we absolutely are looking at offering a lot more items for their sheer specialness factor and with the recognition that such items offer the ability to personalize your characters even more. Set items? Under consideration. Now, keep in mind there is a collectability factor in armor sets such as Druid's, Tormentor's, etc. But the idea of special items - that wonderful feeling of "I have the only one of this type" - is very popular with everyone on our team. (Oh, how I remember that from other games, too!) And one more thing about armor: For the next campaign, I expect we'll see the opportunity for making a fashion statement increasing in a bunch of ways, including what you wear in town and into battle, and in seeing a difference between the two.

neoteo · Aug 29, 2005, 09:50 AM // 09:50

im a pve player cose im waiting for my reallife friends to buy the game , but seems like its out of stock in portugal !!!!

this cant be true ... please fill megastore with guildwars !!! cant belive they let this hapand ...

Soul Shaker · Aug 29, 2005, 11:06 AM // 11:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Sonya

I think many of you need to remember the title of the game it's called "GUILD WARS", not Diablo, not Neverwinter Nights, not Everquest, but "GUILD WARS", that says in the title what the developers had/have in mind for the game for it to be PVP based, with a pve game just to give it some longevity and challenge to get to the PVP game. It's about ladders and fame and rank, not about how uber you are or whether you have 15k armor or not. 15k armor is not a necessity for pve or pvp, it's just a vanity item and many people act like it's gods gift to mankind and a crying shame if they can't own it and cry about the economy if they can't own it a week after starting to play the game. It's nothing more than another time sync and if you want to "grind" for that armor then that's what it's there for. There's no forcing anyone to grind for un-needed armor.

If their priority was pve then there would be hordes of loot content, but, if you really inspect it, there's very little loot content compared to other mmorpgs and even your single player offline games. GW's probably has the least loot content of any rpg type game out there atm. Just create a PVP only character and you'll see quickly there's very few upgrades at all, and there's a lvl 20 cap and a 200 cap on attributes all this ties in with the PVP portion of the game to balance and make a level playing field where eventually the only thing that matters is "skill" over anything else. You won't have a greater weapon than anyone else, you won't have a faster one, you won't have greater armor than anyone else, you'll only have your "skill".

The PVE part of the game did bring a lot of rpgers into this game (brought me), but, as more and more are seeing the game for what it was really designed for they will move onto something else. One levels way too fast for it to be really a grind other than grinding for that leet un-needed armor. You can reach level 20 within a day or two if you know what to do. You can fly through the game using runners now if you have the cash which for many of us now having loads of cash isn't a big issue, only those just starting out usually whine about not having any money, they want what we got without having to work for it even a little bit it seems.

The fact that the game has no monthly fee also brought a large crowd, but, even free the game can and will still become boring if you're not into PVP. It's just over too fast compared to the regular mmorpgs out there, hence it's more of an mmo than a dynamic mmorpg type game that has so much content it can take you years to discover it all.

The game will eventually balance out to pure pvp players in the long run. Just like many of us who play single player games offline after we've done the story a couple of times we move onto something else. If they had made the PVE portion more like DIablo 2 and added tons of loot content that drops like rain and made going back through it a nightmare and hell encounter the PVE portion would have more longevity, but, as it is, it's not intended for that cause the intention is "GUILD WARS".

I'm waiting on Dungeons and Dragons Online, I've recently read one can triple multiclass just like you can in the offline tabletop and Neverwinter Nights versions. It'll probably have an expensive monthly fee, but, I have no doubt it will have extended PVE content so that the PVE game doesn't become boring because one did it all within a week.

SO play Guild Wars for what it's "primary" design is about PVP, if you're just totally not into PVP the PVE game is going to become stale and boring and feel like a useless grind for nothing more than some vanity armor which isn't any better in stats than the 1500gp armor.

Never heard of that Dungeons and Dragons Online thing...i've heard of a website by the same name, but nothing else. But yeah, this is a good wake-up call. I'm an RPG/FPS player so this game really appeals to me. It should to the majority of people i'm thinking, but it looks like some people want to keep it as RPG and that's it. Others wanna keep it PvP, nothing-else-you-can't-change-my-opinion-cos-i-bought-an-RPG/PvP-game-and-i-expect-it-to-be-PvP-only-RPGers-don't-matter.

Both groups are very self-centered and will probably never appreciate variety in a game and constantly call for one thing that will completely ruin another part of the game. Just like UAS/X. But that will ruin the people who like both (like me), but keep the other 2 groups happy. You will NEVER please all 3 crowds. Maybe if WoW had the PvP-only char option.......

Linkie · Aug 29, 2005, 01:13 PM // 13:13

So people that want to finish PvE quick should be forced to first farm uber weapons to complete the game and then farm for unlocks?

Damon Windwalker · Aug 29, 2005, 02:14 PM // 14:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Sonya

I think many of you need to remember the title of the game it's called "GUILD WARS", not Diablo, not Neverwinter Nights, not Everquest, but "GUILD WARS", that says in the title what the developers had/have in mind for the game for it to be PVP based, with a pve game just to give it some longevity and challenge to get to the PVP game.

Your logic is flawed. I guarantee that a heck of a lot more time was spent developing the PvE side of the game than the PvP. If your assertions were true - why would they spend so much time on PvE?

Quit trying to tell people thast the game is all about what YOU think it is about.

Lu Cheng Ying · Aug 29, 2005, 02:36 PM // 14:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red Sonya

I think many of you need to remember the title of the game it's called "GUILD WARS", not Diablo, not Neverwinter Nights, not Everquest, but "GUILD WARS", that says in the title what the developers had/have in mind for the game for it to be PVP based, with a pve game just to give it some longevity and challenge to get to the PVP game. It's about ladders and fame and rank, not about how uber you are or whether you have 15k armor or not. 15k armor is not a necessity for pve or pvp, it's just a vanity item and many people act like it's gods gift to mankind and a crying shame if they can't own it and cry about the economy if they can't own it a week after starting to play the game. It's nothing more than another time sync and if you want to "grind" for that armor then that's what it's there for. There's no forcing anyone to grind for un-needed armor.

Stop inventing facts. Prove your point. Where are the quotes from A.Net/NCSoft that support your manufactured facts?

The simple fact that A.Net/NCSoft have spent far more resources into the PvE side would indicate that you are most certainly delusional with your "facts".

Quote:

If their priority was pve then there would be hordes of loot content, but, if you really inspect it, there's very little loot content compared to other mmorpgs and even your single player offline games. GW's probably has the least loot content of any rpg type game out there atm. Just create a PVP only character and you'll see quickly there's very few upgrades at all, and there's a lvl 20 cap and a 200 cap on attributes all this ties in with the PVP portion of the game to balance and make a level playing field where eventually the only thing that matters is "skill" over anything else. You won't have a greater weapon than anyone else, you won't have a faster one, you won't have greater armor than anyone else, you'll only have your "skill".

Actually it did start out with hordes of loots to be had. But botters has put an end to these. Now everywhere is nerfed to hell!

What frustrates me is that A.Net/NCSoft has refused to implement means to eliminate botting, but rather choses the easy way out by just nerfing every place.

Quote:

The fact that the game has no monthly fee also brought a large crowd, but, even free the game can and will still become boring if you're not into PVP. It's just over too fast compared to the regular mmorpgs out there, hence it's more of an mmo than a dynamic mmorpg type game that has so much content it can take you years to discover it all.

Actually, PvP can be an instant bore because to succeed, you have to develop a "clique" with 3-7 other people. This becomes quite boring after a few runs of monotonous conversations with the same guys (and most of the time, using the same skills/tactics). You really can't succeed in GW PvP by just randomly picking players into your team. GW doesn't doesn't offer enough dynamics to "sucky" players to make random team building a success, unlike games like CounterStrike (in it's various forms) or Battlefield.

Quote:

The game will eventually balance out to pure pvp players in the long run. Just like many of us who play single player games offline after we've done the story a couple of times we move onto something else. If they had made the PVE portion more like DIablo 2 and added tons of loot content that drops like rain and made going back through it a nightmare and hell encounter the PVE portion would have more longevity, but, as it is, it's not intended for that cause the intention is "GUILD WARS".

Again, pure conjecture on your part. I don't think you speak for A.Net/NCSoft.

Quote:

SO play Guild Wars for what it's "primary" design is about PVP, if you're just totally not into PVP the PVE game is going to become stale and boring and feel like a useless grind for nothing more than some vanity armor which isn't any better in stats than the 1500gp armor.

"Primary" is PvP? You've go to be kidding. Stop speaking and inventing facts for A.Net/NCSoft.

Simple fact that more (PvE) content is coming indicates that you have no clue what you're talking about!